Tom Long Interview Transcript

This is the transcript of my interview of Tom Long, the lead actor in the new Australian film The Book of Revelation (directed by Ana Kokkinos). The interview was done on July 31 in the foyer of the Westin Hotel in the Melbourne CBD. I'd seen the premiere of the film (at the Melbourne Film Festival) the previous Friday. I didn't submit the interview to Beat magazine till recently, as the film isn't released in Australia till September 7. As always, when I played back the interview, parts of it were inaudible because of either background noise or the shittiness of my recorder (or hearing). -Hans.

Hans: How was the part offered to you?

Tom: Well, I’d worked previously with Ana, and we’d had a good experience. But I auditioned for it, along with four or five others.

Was that a new experience? Because a lot of the time parts are cast without auditioning?

A lot are. I think such a role – and because of the subject matter – different people would respond differently. It’s hard to know if people would go there or whatever. It’s pretty confronting subject matter.

Obviously you’d read the script before you went into the auditions. Did you have hesitations about–

Oh yeah. I had a strong reaction when I was reading it. I just got really angry sometimes. You know, I wanted to throw it, the script. So I did, yeah. I did have hesitations. I had to dance and be nude – and also just the subject matter. A man losing his power sort of somehow struck a chord, and angered me as a man. That anger also fascinated me.

You mentioned the dancing which was one of the things that interested me. You have no formal training as a dancer.

No, I’m not a dancer at all. Socially I’m not a dancer. I think there’s people who have got a real freedom and can lose themselves dancing. I’m not one of those people.

I’m too self-conscious...

Yeah, so am I. It’s always the third eye – always. As if I’m doing it for effect or something. It’s an incredibly exposing thing. I don’t like singing. I don’t like dancing. I don’t like any of those things where you sorta stand out.

That’s actually interesting because one of the things that makes the dancing in the film work – and I was surprised at how well it works – is that you actually look like a dancer. Is that your natural physique, or did they put you through some gruelling training regimen?

No. I mean, obviously I've got a physique that lends itself maybe to that. But I did do three months prior training with Meryl Tankard, and that was another pull toward doing the film because she’s a guru in the Australian dance scene. So the opportunity to go there from not dancing to that was a real look into another world. But we did three months. But it was mainly yoga to start with, then a month of full on dancing prior to the start of shooting.

It must be pretty gratifying how it came up on the film because – I mean, I don’t have a trained eye – but it seemed pretty authentic to me...

Yeah, right. I mean, I’m probably more critical than most because I always thought that I’m gonna fail to some degree because dancers have been dancing since age four or five or something. They’ve got these bodies. You know, it’s in tune. And here I am, and at best I’ve played football [laughs]. But yeah, it was fun to explore.

The premiere at the Forum on Saturday night, was that the first time you’ve seen the film with an audience?

No, I didn’t watch it actually that night. So I’ve never watched it with an audience.

You must feel pretty apprehensive about that. Will you at any point do that?

Yeah, I probably will later on. But at the moment because it’s gonna strike such a strong reaction. People are either gonna go with it. There’s gonna be a lot that don’t go with it. There’s gonna be some that get upset by it. There’s some that laugh at it. You’re gonna get every reaction, and everyone trying to cope with it a different way. Some are gonna say, 'Nah, it’s not believable', and aren’t gonna go with it. They just can’t go there. Either that it’s too confronting or it’s too ridiculous for them – for many issues. Or there’s gonna be people that actually go with it or get affected. But I think no matter what it does sit with people for a while and gets people talking.

So are you apprehensive at sitting in the audience while people watch the film?

Yeah, there’s a sense of apprehension there because, in a way, it’s like sitting and 500 people having sex with you. [Laughs] You know, to look in someone’s eye straight after that thing... After it’s so intimate... you know, you’ve masturbated you’ve done all this. To look in someone’s eyes. They’ve just spent that time with you – it’d be a bit confronting for them, and for me.

The director [at the Forum premiere] did a little preamble before the film, and she said that one of the things she agonised over during editing was how much of the sex she should show and how explicit it should be. Did you have any opinions or input at all on that?

Well, I read the book, and I read the script, and I knew that I had to either go there or not go there. If I was nude, I was nude. So then it was like... So then I didn’t put any embargoes [ed: someone’s banging coffee cups in the background; I think he said ‘embargoes’] on. Actually doing this film is quite reckless in a way. I really don’t care. I don’t give a fuck as far as... It’s just like, you know, you might never work again. You might. You know? Really, it’s like... [Laughs] You’re chained up. You can’t adjust yourself. You can’t do anything. You know? It’s very confronting, yeah.

That’s one of the interesting things about the film. There must have been a fine line between showing enough to make this guy’s – Daniel’s – experiences real to the audience, but not showing so much that it just gets too gruelling for the audience. It’s pretty horrible, you know? He’s raped. He’s brutalised.

Yeah, you can get that sense, even reading the book you can. How much can you endure, you know? When does it become a butcher chopping up meat? When does it become that sorta cold... And I think it’ll do different things for different people. For some, it’ll be 'Why?' And even reading it – it was like 'Why? Why do I have to go there? Why are you pulling me there?' So yeah, it is hard. Some of it, it could be too much for some people. It definitely is confronting, and there definitely is a line there. And that calls into question morality, and how far should you go. But the answer is: I don’t know. But that’s what the story was, and that’s where we went, yeah.

In some ways, the film – the scenario it presents – is a familiar scenario in that we’re all familiar with the horrible stories of women and children being abducted. You know, whether it happens in Belgium, the US, or Mexico, we’ve all heard these stories before. And they’ve kinda become fodder for talk shows and particularly for tabloid journalism. But the difference with this story is, apart from the fact that it comes from a pretty highbrow novel, is the fact that the genders are reversed between the victims and the victimisers. What affect switching the genders of the victim and victimisers have on this scenario?

I think it does have a lot, and it’s quite shocking in a way because the supports and strengths of a man, for me, is our outer strength. And because women don’t have that they find an inner strength. And it’s not that we haven’t got the inner strength, it’s that we often don’t have to find it because we’ve got the physical strength, and that guards us. But you take that away, our physical strength, and you have to grapple with our inner strength, which is what he has to try and do. When the woman is masturbating and he has to shut his eyes, and he’s trying to find his inner strength.

Have you had the opportunity to talk to viewers who’ve seen the film yet?

Yeah, I have talked to people.

How did they react?

It seems broad, and there seems not to be much middle ground. Some people really loved it and loved that it challenged them. And there’s people that, you know, don’t–

Yeah, I can imagine.

Yeah, and it can be for all different reasons, you know? I think they can’t argue with 'It’s a well-made film', and with 'It’s a beautiful film'. But the fact is that the premise, or the subject matter, they could be... not go with it. I can appreciate that – I have both, the push-pull of both extremes within me.

So you feel that the reaction of different people who’ve seen the film sort represent different part of your own reaction to the film?

Yeah, in a way. I think so, yeah. Because there’s a pull towards it, but there’s also a revulsion, yeah.

One thing that interests me is has the reaction of the people you’ve spoken to varied depending on their gender? Have women reacted differently?

Yeah...I thought the demographic would be cut down... Or the division would be more gender. And sometimes it is. But it’s more complicated than that. Some is age. Some is gender, because the women find it more upsetting that the man loses his power too.

Perhaps they can empathise with it, maybe?

Yeah, maybe.

Because they’re more likely to have been – not, obviously, in that extreme a situation – but just in everyday life, you can feel a bit powerless sometimes...

Yeah, maybe it is. But I’m not quite sure. And yet because it’s done the festival and stuff, the audience is probably more artistically inclined, more open-minded, more used to a broader range of ideas. So the general release will probably instil another lot of reactions, and I’m sure it will get a reaction.

How broad will the release be?

It’ll be all Palace cinemas, and a few others.

Are there plans yet to take this overseas to festivals?

I have no idea. I believe so, but I don’t know the details yet.

[...]

Getting to the reaction that a lot of guys are gonna have to this film... When I was reading the book, I was like: there’s a down side to having sex with three women?

That’s the whole reaction. That’s my reaction [...] Three women, you go 'Well, that can’t be all bad. I’ll take a bit of pain just to be with three girls'. A lot of guys... I get that already. That’s their general response – doesn’t matter how intelligent or articulate [or] open-minded they are–

That’s incredible...

Yeah, it is. And the whole idea, because it’s not really something we question as men all the time. I supppose you think of maybe imprisoned or gay scenarios. That that might happen. OK, another man, but it’s unlikely to– No, I can’t say that... But it’s less on our minds, or less on mine anyway, as I walk through the city that that’s gonna happen. That that’s a possibility.

You don’t feel vulnerable in that particular way.

No, no, of course you don’t.

Do you think all the sniggering is a defensive reaction? Because male sexuality, so much of it is predicated on men being the aggressors, the initiators, so that when it’s suddenly switched around guys are suddenly squirming in their seats because that’s not how they’re used to thinking about themselves?

I think it’s definitely a reaction, yeah. I mean, I would tend to think that the sniggering is much like teenage stuff. You know, it is a defense and it’s a form of coping.

Yeah, you laugh at what makes you uncomfortable.

Yeah, well, you don’t know. You’re sitting there, and you’re sitting next to people, but yet you’re watching this really intimate sort of thing. So your head’s there [gesturing], and your head’s there, and you’re sitting this close. So there’s no avoiding where you’ve gone. [...] And it goes to an intimate area. Things like masturbation, or the anal. It’s incredibly intimate. Because it’s your own thing and you don’t normally...

Well, that kinda brings me on to something else. I always think this about lots of films, not just this one. But there some really intimate things that must have happened on set. Was that really awkward with the other actors? These are quite possibly strangers who you’ve never met, and suddenly you’re in there doing all these things. What do you do to get past that?

Well, I think that actors are fairly open anyway. But then, you also do feel safe within what Ana set up. The parameters are quite safe. And then you rehearse everything from a script point of view, and you get to know each other. After a while, because I’m in everything, I was getting used to it – or sort of used to it – more so than someone coming in for a few days or something. So then you have to make them feel comfortable and safe: ‘OK, so you’re gonna do this, and this, and this’. And you just rehearse with clothes on, you know, and it’s all choreographed. Go, ‘Is it OK if I touch you there?’ ‘Yeah’. Or, ‘I’d rather not do this’. Or they’re worried about this bit of their bodies, or whatever.

Have you ever been tested this much by a role?

No, because it tests me on all sorts of fronts. On morality issues. On nudity, you know? On just being nude. And even on such a broad scale because I’m chained by these German handcuffs... It’s cold in the room. You can’t even, like, adjust yourself. You know, most actors would do that. Get a bit of blood going. There’s nothing, you know. [Laughs] There’s nothing. I’m just stuck there... I could, I suppose, ask to be unchained, but, fuck it, if I’m going there, just whatever it is, it is. [...]

I’m always interested by actors who say, you know, perhaps they’ve been playing a character who’s really traumatised or really horrible, and they get so into the role that they kinda take some of it home with them. Are you like that, or at the end of the day when you stop shooting can you just hit a switch–

Yeah, I did. I hit a switch with this one. [Inaudible] ...but the actual abuse was so much to cope with that it was just totally in the moment. And then, you know, when I went home to my partner, girlfriend, and she asked me how my day was. It was just like, 'Oh, nah'. I couldn’t say. And she’d be like, 'OK'. So just sort of leave it. It was too much to bring back. It was just like, ‘No, stay in the moment’. Although he is active within his chains, he’s passive also. So you can just be there. He also wants out, but it does allow you to just be in the moment...

Has the author, Rupert Thomson, seen the film, and does he like it?

He sent an email to Ana - I can’t remember it all - but the first bit was ‘I love it. I love it. I love it’. And especially because only about a third of the book is in the film. There’s other bits where they eat off him [in the book]. Because it’s a film, they have to [abridge the story]... But also for structural reasons.

It’s not an easy book to adapt.

No, it’s not.

Because when I first heard about it, I thought good luck to them doing this because it doesn’t seem that cinematic.

In a way, it’s not. I was always worried that there’s not enough of him before. Who is this guy before he goes missing. You want to know him. But Ana made a conscious decision to not have it... And that’s how the book was anyway...

Was there anything in particular that you wanted to say about the film, about the experience?

[...] On the whole, it’s already created a response. Wait and see. We’re throwing this thing out there, and you just wait to see what ripples or waves or tsunamis come back. You don’t know. You said something that interested me, about this being a really ‘risky’ role for you. In what way do you think it’s risky? Most actors really manage how they come across, and I really didn’t in that, at all, I don’t think. It was like ‘Film whatever you want to, you know. It was like ‘if you’re allowed to show that, show it’. It was just reckless on that level. Just letting go of that preciousness. You are how you are. Whatever, your body...